45 years ago, scientists wanted to ban fossil fuels to prevent a new ice age and flooding of coastal cities.
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45 years ago, scientists wanted to ban fossil fuels to prevent a new ice age and flooding of coastal cities.
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If you look at the EPICA and Vostok ice core studies you can see a very stable pattern over the last million years. Roughly 100,000 year ice ages, punctuated by 10,000 year inter glacial warm periods. The graph looks a lot like a heart monitor. No scientist anywhere disputes this data, as far as I know. The AGWs use this graph to prove that CO2 rises when it is warmer. It actually rises after the warming occurs, but that is also well known. What I see in this graph is that our current inter glacial is around 13,000 yeas long, and if the pattern continues, we should be seeing signs of the beginning of another ice age. Like, for instance, ice building at the poles. Hmmmm? I think personally we are close, even if that might be a few centuries off, it an ice age is likely coming. Another thing to consider, look how abruptly the ice ages end, without any influence from humanity, and how the temperature can swing over 10 degrees, not just a few tenths. This graph is what convinced me that global warming/cooling is natural, and the warming that has occurred after the little age is well within normal fluctuations, Trivial even, compared to somewhat older fluctuations.
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I need help from all you who are thermodynamicists. Media bloggers worldwide all believe the basic story about green house gases being a heater of the earth. The Green House Gases are not heaters.
WORLDWIDE BLOGGERS who are PROFESSIONAL MEDIA PEOPLE who have A VESTED INTEREST in THE ALARM REFUSE to ADMIT there is NO THERMODYNAMIC BASIS in the GREEN HOUSE GASES BEING a HEATER.
I need the SUSTAINED, INSISTENT HELP of EVERY ANONYMOUS THERMODYNAMICIST i can GET.
Go to websites like Anthony Watts WUWT and Jo ann NOVA and tell the people there THESE THINGS: do it REPEATEDLY.
SHOW people you do NOT accept the FUNDAMENTAL BASIC SCIENCE of GREEN HOUSE GAS WARMING or of USING STEFAN BOLTZMANN MATHEMATICS in the PLACE of IDEAL GAS LAW which is the LAW of THERMODYNAMICS written specifically FOR the ATMOSPHERE.
There is a sphere rotating in vacuum without an atmosphere lit by a light. The amount of light to the sphere at that distance is uninterrupted and is 100%
MODES of energy IN are ONE and that is RADIANT
MODES of energy OUT are ONE and that is RADIANT.
Immediately upon suspension around the sphere of an insulating reflective atmospheric gas bath energy to the surface of the sphere diminishes by several percent in creation by the atmosphere of a UNIQUE and DEFINED THERMODYNAMIC PROCESS named diffraction LOSS. Diffraction COOLING.
Diffraction COOLING is created almost ENTIRELY by the GREEN HOUSE GAS COOLANTS.
When sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric
envelope 1% energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION
COOLING MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 1%.
When
sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric envelope 5%
energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION COOLING
MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 5%
When sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric envelope
10% energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION COOLING
MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 10%
When sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric envelope
15% energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION COOLING
MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 15%
When
sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric envelope 20%
energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION COOLING
MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 20%. THIS is the CURRENT SITUATION.
When sufficient green house gases are added to the atmospheric envelope
21% energy to the surface is reduced in COOLING the DIFFRACTION COOLING
MODE has reduced energy to the surface by 21%.
When the 20% COOLING is done by existence of diffraction loss the reflective envelope is still many degrees COLDER than the SURFACE and subsequent turbulent impingement with surface features creates migratory energy LOSS by the SURFAC as the ATMOSPHERIC COOLING – in the form of the thermodynamic process named CONDUCTION: LOWERS the temperature of the sphere FURTHER.
There is a THIRD MODE of COOLING created by the atmosphere and one aspect of that uniquely described defined and named mode of energy LOSS is the PHASE CHANGE REFRIGERANT, green house gas species’ WATER’s UNIQUE REFRIGERATION in which it changes phase evaporating from the surface,
rises until it dumps energy to lower-energy regimes at higher altitudes and CONDENSES: CHANGING PHASE a SECOND TIME to FALL to earth FASTER than if it remained simply in gas PHASE. This UNIQUE ASPECT of ATMOSPHERIC COOLING of the SURFACE is
SOLELY DUE
to GREEN HOUSE GAS COOLANT and atmospheric phase change refrigerant, WATER although other gases do participate in the rising according to gravity, that the generically defined mechanism ”convection” conveys in it’s simpler description.
CONVECTION
and
DIFFRACTION cooling
are almost TOTALLY DONE by GREEN HOUSE GAS COOLANTS.
I need you, the thermodynamicist who is the anonymous blogger to go to all the blog sites and news sites and tell people you do NOT accept the green house gas COOLANTS are WARMING the EARTH. MORE green house gases in the atmosphere create MORE
green
house
gas
COOLING.
Peace anonymous thermodynamicists, I need your help. I need you yourself to compact the above down and learn to type it rather quickly and discuss with people that PURE and SIMPLE you do NOT SUBMIT your WILL to TALK about REAL thermodynamics to the INSISTENCE of obvious scammers.
When Phil Jones admitted in the BBC 2010 interview he had been faking records since 1998 and that it hadn’t warmed and had actually just slightly cooled, it was outright admission all this talk of warming is FAKE. You must not REFUSE to INSIST on being HEARD SAYING the actual TRUTH:
the green house gases CREATE almost SOLELY a 20% cooling BY VIRTUE of their EXISTENCE and MORE of them is AMPLIFICATION of that COOLING.
Peace again and Merry Christmas. I need dozens of you, hundreds of you, to firmly, carefully CRAWL ALL OVER the INTERNET and SPREAD the DISCUSSION above OVER and OVER.
Anthony Watts REFUSES to LET it be DISCUSSED when he CAN
JO ANN NOVA REFUSES to LET it be DISCUSSED when she CAN.
The PROFESSIONAL MEDIA BLOGGERS of the WORLD are INTIMIDATED by being made FUN of by academics and government officials.
The individuals in their HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS on all these blogs, CAN’T be.
Please help spread the word that YOU INSIST on BEING ALLOWED to DISCUSS CLASSIC THERMODYNAMICS in which the ATMOSPHERE
creates THREE MODES of COOLING
creates TWO of those MODES almost SOLELY with GREEN HOUSE GASES.
Good grief, Allen Elton, you are so confused. Stop snorting that anti-scientific “Sky Dragon Slayer” Kool-Aid, and talk to a real scientist or two.
You demand discussion of classical thermodynamics, but you can’t reasonably discuss what you obviously don’t understand.
Nobody who understands anything about the atmosphere disputes the fact that greenhouse gases (GHGs) warm the planet. The process (though misnamed, because it’s not how greenhouses work) is well-understood, and the back-radiation from atmospheric GHGs is easily measured.
What you call “diffraction cooling” is not created by GHGs or any other sort of gases, it is created by aerosols and clouds.
The water-cycle phase-change refrigeration effect, which you mention, is real, but it is merely a “negative feedback” mechanism which attenuates the effects of other things that affect temperature. It does not and cannot turn the warming effect of CO2 into a cooling effect.
The only scientific argument about the effect of greenhouse gases on temperature is about its magnitude. The alarmists think it is catastrophic and huge. The skeptics think it is modest and benign. (Thus far, the evidence mostly supports the skeptics.)
You might not realize that the Earth emits just as much radiation as it absorbs. However, the emitted radiation is mostly IR and microwave (i.e., below the visible range). That means the Earth emits far more IR than it absorbs, so anything (like CO2) which “colors” (dyes) the atmosphere in the infrared will tend to prevent radiation from escaping, and thus warm the Earth, compared to what it would be in the absence of that colorant.
The reason climate skeptics like Anthony Watts and Jo Nova do not allow you to post rubbish on their blogs is the same reason that you will not find discussions of alchemy or 9-11 conspiracy theories there: because Anthony and Jo are serious scientists, and their blogs are for the discussion of science, not superstition.
WHENEVER YOU can PROPERLY DESCRIBE a SUN WARMED ROCK receiving LESS LIGHT
distributing and EMITTING WHAT’S LEFT through a COLDER, LARGER MASS,
and THAT NOT BE the DEFINITION of C O O L I N G
then YOU’RE not BARKING Magic Gas FAKERY.
You’ve had AS LONG AS EVERYONE ELSE but instead, we have this HAND WAVE from you.
We’ll ACCEPT your ADMISSION you BELIEVE, but that YOU CAN’T CHANGE the DEFINITION of
C O O L I N G either.
Now DO it or you’re CRYING for a CHURCH that’s as DOOMED as your THERMODYNAMIC analysis.
1. Please fix your stuck caps-lock key.
2. The reason that GHGs warm the Earth is that they block much more departing radiation than incoming radiation.
The Earth emits about the same amount of radiant energy as it absorbs, but the spectra are very different. The incoming radiation arriving at the Earth from the Sun is mostly visible and shorter wavelengths. The outgoing radiation from the Earth is mostly long wavelength: IR and microwave.
Read that again: much, much more IR is emitted by the Earth than it receives from the Sun.
Do you understand that? If you don’t understand that, you cannot understand how GHGs warm the Earth.
Here’s a graph:
http://www.oocities.org/[email protected]/climate_files/Emission_Spectrum_Sun_Earth.png
So, if you add a dye to the atmosphere which causes it to absorb long wavelength radiation, it has little effect in incoming radiation from the Sun, but radiation emitted by the Earth’s surface which otherwise would escape into space instead is absorbed by the atmosphere, warming it.
A warmer atmosphere also warms the surface, of course, which is why the Earth will necessarily get warmer.
That’s what GHGs do. They are dyes, which color the atmosphere in the infrared region, at wavelengths where there’s little incoming sunlight but lots of outgoing radiation.
Now do you understand?
I have a lot more information about GHGs on my web site, here:
http://www.sealevel.info/resources.html#ghg
Nobody is interested in magical ”if it’s a different color, then less means more.”
The atmosphere stops part of the light of the planet from arriving.
It then disperses that REDUCED ENERGY LOAD through the ADDITIONAL COLDER MASS of the atmosphere.
You’re barking about the colors of the butterflies in another conversation.
You REFUSE to JOIN the ONE you claimed to CRITIQUE.
LESS light ON a MASS is REDUCED ENERGY DENSITY.
To then EMIT that REDUCED ENERGY from ADDITIONAL, COLDER MASS,
is the DEFINITION of C O O L I N G.
When THAT’S no longer TRUE you can talk about the COLOR of your HERRING.
*Sigh* Well, I tried.
I’ll bet you’re a Trump supporter, aren’t you, Allen Eltor?
Political parties are for people such as yourself, who believe if enough of you insist blocking light from an object then distributing the remainder through a larger, colder mass, is magically a heater,
it is.
But it’s not.
Which is why you can’t even explain your bombastic statement about the atmosphere not blocking infrared. That’s almost ALL it blocks, and Green House Gases DO the BLOCKING.
Let’s guess you think GHG emitted light, magically heats the oceans, too, Dave?
No, dave, the GHGs aren’t magical, mighty heaters. Real thermodynamicists have known about this for years and challenged Magic Gassers with the reality of it.
Anonymous blogger Konrad did an experiment throwing down the gauntlet to Magic Heater Church preachers worldwide, in 2011.
FOUR YEARS LATER after being MOCKED and RIDICULED MERCILESSLY by REAL thermodynamicists,
Magic Gas Priest Roy Spencer replicated the experiment showing indeed GHG radiation reinforces the ‘skin’ effect KNOWN for it’s CHILLING of the TOP of a body of water through – that’s right, by being the class light emitted when water IS a gas, it’s the TYPE ENERGY that ENTANGLES with water and MAKES it REVERT to GAS,
HASTENING EVAPORATION based COOLING.
Note as yourself, Spencer denied it’s possible, Magic Gas KooK Gavin Schmidt claimed HE calculated it’s IMPOSSIBLE, and ONE experiment stopped ALL the talk
about GHG emitted ENERGY heating liquid water.
You’re so in the blinking dark. ”GHGs don’t BLOCK INFRARED to the EARTH.” You’re barking KooK-SpeaK.
The ATMOSPHERE is a COLD, light blocking BATH.
It is THERMALLY CONDUCTIVE.
It REDUCES energy density TO the surface
and subsequently DISTRIBUTES that THROUGHOUT a LARGER, COLDER, total MASS.
IF you’re so KooKed out YOU can’t GRASP that’s the definition of COOLING
and YOU don’t know the GHGs are MAINLY RESPONSIBLE for ENERGY not REACHING earth,
and YOU don’t know that GHG emitted LIGHT reverts water – SURPRISE, back to GAS –
then – REALLY Dave – what DO you know about the analysis of a
cold
compressible
turbulent
self refrigerating,
light blocking,
fluid bath?
Let me guess ”FLUID MECHANICS don’t ANALYZE the TURBULENT, COLD, FLUID BATH” as well as whatever Stefan-Boltzmann magic someone waved around before your mesmerized face?
You think there’s no WAY
a FREEZING COLD LIGHT BLOCKING BATH of REFRIGERANT
COOLS the LIGHT WARMED ROCK it’s WASHING. That doesn’t even make sense to you,
YOU think the reason Phil Jones had to admit he fabricated record of warming for 12 years was he just forgot it didn’t warm.
And when the BBC 2010 Phil Jones interview came, and he admitted it hadn’t warmed a whit since 1995, that means NOTHING to your belief system.
And later when Met Office which demoted him for not admitting it hadn’t warmed for over a decade, sorted out what he’d done, and they issued a press release named ‘The Recent Pause In Warming’ in which they declared they had written 3 papers on the PAUSE in WARMING since 1998,
you think, that’s a BIG misunderstanding on everyone who told you they’re FAKING’s part,
whereas YOU can’t even tell us what frequency light is blocked, by which class of gases.
Do you know how KooK-ville you sound with your ”I don’t know what SPECTRA the atmosphere INTERACTS with but I know the SKY is a HEATER not a FREEZING COLD FLUID LIGHT BLOCKING BATH.
Let me guess Dave, mathematics can’t clearly explain the temperature of Venus, either. All those people who simply took standard atmospheric law and calculated the temperature on Venus, and Mars, simply adjusted for energy-in, and density,
they don’t know the sky’s magic, either. Only the real smart people know the sky is magic.
Like you: the ones who don’t even know GHGs block the MAIN portion of energy the atmosphere blocks, in INFRARED primarily.
You’re a good example of someone – who just being NEAR Magic Gas theory has you LYING, and CLAIMING YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND about SUNLIGHT, and Be-Bop-a-LooLa, Magic Heater in the Sky…
Now let’s all hear your clear, lucid, step by step explanation why in YOUR eyes, the usage of standard atmospheric law and hydrostatic equations is blasphemy in analyzing a freezing cold compressible, turbulent, pressurized fluid bath.
To go along with your excuse of how I can calculate the temperature of Mars, and of Venus, from the instrument readings, and using proper FLUID thermodynamics, land RIGHT on the NOSE.
And how that’s possible with EARTH as WELL.
But that – YOU don’t know what kind of TRICK it is, when WE all tell you the LAW WRITTEN for the ATMOSPHERE works just FINE, and that – all you’ve got to do is adjust for DENSITY between the three, and of course the energy in.
That all sounds like it would never work to you, because the people analyzing the atmospheres of Venus and Mars and Earth using the law WRITTEN for atmospheres, must be TRICKING you.
You showed up here claiming you’ve got a WEB SITE and YOU’RE going to EXPLAIN this.
You can’t get from ”the earth is a spherical rock rotating in vacuum, lit by light,”
to ”and that’s how LESS energy density emitted through LARGER, COLDER MASS,
is a MAGIC HEATER! Ya’W!”
Go find someone to explain all this bumbling jibberish you tried to feed strangers Dave.
So it doesn’t sound like just by becoming contaminated with it you lost capacity to count more, or less energy, arriving on a thermometer.
Use big words Dave my background’s applied atmospheric chemistry and atmospheric radiation electronic engineering.
so make that thermodynamic thunder roll so when you declare the sky’s a heater, we all sit transfixed at the CLARITY of EXPOSITION in your discourse.
If it’s not PLAIN you know what you’re talking about, then WE KNOW YOU don’t UNDERSTAND.
Start with ”the EARTH is a SPHERE rotating in VACUUM lit by a LIGHT. ”
End up with ”and that’s how the sky is a magic heater!”
THEN you need to show us ONE other instance in the history of MAN KIND when someone BLOCKED light to a light-warmed rock and SCRUBBED the remaining energy off with a larger, colder, total mass,
and that was a heater Dave. Then you won’t be in here barking about magic in the sky.
Do you think fluoridation is a nefarious government plot, too, Mr. atmospheric radiation electronic engineer & chemist?
“Atmospheric radiation,” I guess, as opposed to the competing Armorl radiation? Just how old are you?
More deflection from the Quack-0-dynamics Magic Heater church member. I said to YOU:
Start with ”The earth is a spherical light warmed rock rotating in vacuum of space lit by a nearby glowing energy source.”
Without an atmosphere light in is 100%.
Mode of energy gain is radiant,
Mode of energy loss is radiant.
You then need to move to ”Upon suspension of a thin, cold gas envelope around the sphere thermodynamic conditions are altered by scattering created by Oxygen. Oxygen scattering creates blue sky overhead.
However by far the largest scattering/absorption mode COOLING is when
GREEN HOUSE GASES BLOCK 17 – 20% energy to the surface of the sphere.
This
GREEN HOUSE GAS CREATED COOLING stops about half available sun emitted infrared…
You need to move through ”the reduced energy to the surface is then dissipated throughout the larger, colder, total mass of the atmospheric envelope through CONDUCTION mode COOLING.
You need to then address CONVECTION dispersion of the reduced surface energy into the larger colder, mass to be emitted.
You need to wind up your story so that EVERYONE HERE Dave – says ” WoW, Dave just described a
frigid
turbulent
light blocking
self refrigerating
fluid gas bath,
REDUCING energy density to a SURFACE
to then DISTRIBUTE and EMIT the REMAINDER through a LARGER, COLDER MASS,
and that wasn’t COOLING ! ”
And it needs to ring like a bell, Dave. The thermodynamic profundities need to rock this comment thread.
It’s your church: YOU explain it, so everybody sees, YOU’VE got the MORE PLAUSIBLE THERMODYNAMIC STORY.
ANYWAY DAVE you were going around TELLING PEOPLE
a FRIGID
TURBULENT
LIGHT BLOCKING BATH
REDUCING ENERGY to the SURFACE of the EARTH
to then DISTRIBUTE and EMIT the *REDUCED DENSITY ENERGY*
through a LARGER, COLDER, OVERALL MASS, isn’t the DEFINITION of C O O L I N G
but rather is a MAGIC, HEATER in the sky.
You, the one who didn’t know GHG emitted light EVAPORATES water CHILLING it.
You’re a public school therm-0-billy.
You’re one of the ones whose scholastic SCIENTIFIC ACHIEVEMENT
is marked by being average 30% BELOW HOME SCHOOLED
long dress
hair bun,
DINOSAUR RIDER people.
You stay classy, Magic Gasser!
That’s Dave ”therm-0-billy” Burton, the man who thought LESS LIGHT HITTING a SURFACE
to then be DISTRIBUTED and EMITTED from a LARGER COLDER MASS
is a
MIGHTY,
MAGICAL HEATER in the SKY!
Ya’W!
LoL Watts DROPPED OUT of engineering school, and Jo Nova never WENT. B.E.S.I.D.E.S.
A.P.P.E.A.L. to A.U.T.H.O.R.I.T.Y. is B.E.D.R.O.C.K. MAGIC GAS CHURCH DOCTRINE BECAUSE
NEITHER YOU
NOR THEY
can REDUCE ENERGY to a SURFACE
then DISTRIBUTE to EMIT that *REDUCED ENERGY* through a
LARGER, COLDER MASS
and have it N.O.T. be C.O.O.L.I.N.G.
Not MAYBE.
Not if YOU and Al Gore and Anthony Watts say so,
BECAUSE I JUST REMINDED YOU.
And IF YOU’VE GOT ANSWERS then YOU SCRATCH that OUT real QUICK for us all HERE,
just REAL quick explain how REDUCTION in ENERGY IN
to then DISTRIBUTE and EMIT from COLDER, ADDITIONAL MASS,
is
HEATING.
YOU TAKE your TIME.
The presence of oxygen scattering is shown in the blue sky overhead.
Green House Gas scatter/absorb another spectral slot blocking a much more massive potentially available energy load, to the planet. Haven’t you ever seen the image of CO2 shot with infrared light, intercepting and scattering it?
What are you even trying to claim David? Do you not really grasp what it is you’re speaking on?
The atmosphere blocks through scattering about 20% of the available energy.
Water is responsible for most of this interception and scattering to space, infrared.
The sun isn’t a magical fire. It puts out it’s energy like all other fire. Infrared long wave is part of that fire. The atmosphere stops a lot of it as water such that it has the term LOSS: energy REDUCTION.
When REDUCED ENERGY is DISTRIBUTED through a COLDER LARGER MASS which also is responsible for REDUCING the energy in that’s called energy density reduction.
That is the definition of COOLING. You’re barking insanity.
When you then emit that energy through the COLDER ADDITIONAL MASS this is final COOLING.
Green House Gas COOLANTS first BLOCK light’s ARRIVAL such that it never thermalizes the system
then they CONDUCTIVELY distribute the REDUCED energy through the ADDITIONAL, COLDER MASS
and then, the REDUCED ENERGY is EMITTED from the SYSTEM to glow off a LARGER cooler surface than if there was no ATMOSPHERE.
No atmosphere: 100% energy in.
With atmosphere: less energy in.
No atmosphere: all energy emitted from a surface.
With atmosphere: reduced energy distributed through larger cooler mass and emitted.
The atmosphere is not a heater and it’s obvious you don’t have the slightest idea what you’re even talking about or you wouldn’t be making bombastic ”there is no scattering by GHGs” claim.
Every word you utter is mangled atmospheric jibberish David. If it wasn’t, what you say, would make proper thermodynamic sense, like when dealing in metallurgy or combustion.
When WHAT you SAY doesn’t make even REMOTE reference to REAL atmospheric chemistry you wind up going about telling people
”less energy emitted through a larger cooler total mass is a heater.”
It’s hard to believe you even have the courage to utter it but, such is the way we find people going around making claims about light blocking refrigerated baths, heating the object they’re blocking light to and scrubbing the reduced energy from.
If you appeal to authority again I’m going to mock you for it. Stop and say something that follows proper thermodynamic definitions.